SM465 Info/Tech Post

[jays68yak]

Anyone have a link to info or parts list for the hydro conversion? Im thinking I should swap to the 32 spline output at the same time. Then I dont need to change the 203 input and it will all be beef. I dont see me getting this done till the end of the year if that.

Go to www.partsamerica.com and print out these part numbers and tak into the store and they price match (kragen) ..

Part Number: SC37791 Raybestos Clutch Slave Cylinder..54.99
Part Number: BH38559 Raybestos Brake Hose: PG Plus..49.99
Part Number: 2839732 Raybestos Clutch Master Cylinder...35.99
Pioneer Prods. Clutch Fork Part Number: CF116...17.99

The bellhousing is going to be a bitch to find but I seam to have good luck finding them so If I find one I will call you.. :2thumbs:



Just making this so that I can learn more about this swap and ask a bunch of questions with out killing the build up thread.

Things I have found already. 2wd sm465s are 35 spline.

Where can I buy a 32 spline output for a 465? New or used..

[crewcabroller]

I know ORD has those parts.

[jays68yak]

:blink: $300
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147300&highlight=sm465

[Nosmog73]

They Do make a 35 spline output for the later 465's but there is also the 32 and 10 spline later ones..according to Novak..
Are you sure it is a 35 spline..

If it is Novak has the shaft Number 26 on the right side of the 465 tech page..
There are three principal versions of the SM465, each based on the era and configuration of the transmission. There is no known mechanical superiorities to either earlier or later versions.

Earlier SM465
The earlier era of the SM465 include the 1968 - 1978 transmissions. There were both 2wd and 4wd versions. Internally, they are identical to each with the exception of the transmission mainshaft. The 4wd version of this mainshaft (or "output shaft") has a 10-spline output with a 2-5/8" stickout and an accompanying 4wd adapter housing. The 2wd version has a 35-spline threaded mainshaft compatible with a driveshaft yoke, and accompanying 2wd style tailhousing.

Later SM465
The later era of the SM465 include the 1979 - 1991 transmissions. A minor internal change of the 1st gear bushing and thrust washer occurred, in addition to a change from a shorter 10-spline, 4wd output shaft to a 32-spline 4wd output shaft - coinciding with the change of bolt pattern in the New Process 205 transfer case from a figure "8" input bolt pattern to a round, six-bolt input pattern. This pattern was also found on the 208 and 241 chain-driven transfer cases.

Later 2wd style SM465's also incorporated the same 1st gear bushing and thrust washer change, but the 35-spline, yoked output remained identical.

The last years of SM465 featured a direct-drive (4th gear) switch to signal a lean or cruise mode operation to the GM Engine Control Module (ECM). Rarer *final versions had an aluminum top cover.

They also have the shaft for
Shaft, main, SM465, '78-'91 4wd. 19.63" (32 spline output) $123.90

http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/sm465_parts.htm

[Nosmog73]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=492500&highlight=sm465

[jays68yak]

Mike, Reading that it says that the 2wds were 35. I didnt see where they were 32. I could use a round 465/205 adapter and the 32 spline shaft for a 205 but then I would be longer then going with a 465/203 adapter and the shorter 32 spline shaft.

[CaptainInsano]

Spline Misunderstandings Clarified (according to Novak)

"More splines are stronger"

Not necessarily. Larger shaft diameters are stronger, and larger shaft diameters usually require a higher quantity of splines. However, the automotive powertrain industries migrated to more splines on shafts due to their ease (speed, cost, etc.) of manufacture - smaller splines being able to be roll forged instead of the larger splines having to be machine cut.

A 32 spline output shaft vs. a 10 spline spline output shaft is probably only minutely stronger, and a decision of use here should be driven more by compatibility than perceived strength

[jays68yak]

Understood that I might not be gaining much strength by staying 32 spline. Why do people upgrade thier d60 outters from 30 spline to 35? Is the size increasing that much?
I took the doubler out a good 3 times already. I dont want to do it again for a long time. I should get a clutch to last atleast a year. Starters on the other hand, I should bring trail spares.













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[CaptainInsano]

Understood that I might not be gaining much strength by staying 32 spline. Why do people upgrade thier d60 outters from 30 spline to 35? Is the size increasing that much?
I took the doubler out a good 3 times already. I dont want to do it again for a long time. I should get a clutch to last atleast a year. Starters on the other hand, I should bring trail spares.













1..........2...........3.........4............5... .......6........7...........

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/image009.jpg

bigger. never seen the sm465 comparison

[jays68yak]

You cant hot link pirate pics.

[jays68yak]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=492500&highlight=sm465

He is saying the slave is mounted on the pass side??? Shouldnt it be on the drivers side?

[Nosmog73]

ask for a pic...

[jays68yak]

I did.....Im just waiting....

[gr8pumkin]

Mines on the driver side. Nosmog has all the nessisary pics, and the part numbers for the slave cylinder hose and everthing nessisary. I haven't seen any on the drivers side. :uh oh:

[PaloAltoK5]

You cant hot link pirate pics.

I can see it.... :unsure:

[CaptainInsano]

Mines on the driver side. Nosmog has all the nessisary pics, and the part numbers for the slave cylinder hose and everthing nessisary. I haven't seen any on the drivers side. :uh oh:

I used the Novak hydro conversion kit, a Russel Stainless braided line, and wilwood master, can help ya out with pics and what not if needed also. Mine is on driver also.

[jays68yak]

Mark this is the kit you used?
http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/kit_hcr3.htm

Doesnt look like a bad alt to buying a hydro bellhousing. The dude on pirate is asking $100, I saw 2-3 on ebay over $200. The novak is $180 but comes with the slave.

Note the typo on thier site, it says its on the pass side.

[gr8pumkin]

dunerunner had that kit looked very nice.

[CaptainInsano]

well yes and no, bitches made it better now! :angry2: My bracket is kinda flimsy and gives a bit, looks like they fixed the problem. One of these days I'll pull mine off and gusset it. But yeah, that is about what I paid too. Easiest thing to do IMO. Mine works fine even with the crappy bracket.

[gr8pumkin]

Yep totally agree I had a hell of a time trying to find all the parts for my hydro conversion. That kit makes it very easy almost a bolt up.

Jeremy

[DuneRunner]

Jay, the Novac Kit is Sick! Uses a Toyota Slave and the bracket it comes with is nice too.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/71654175/1120614173032547942drZKld

Probably could get a spare slave and make a new bracket for spare and be done.

$175 I think I paid.

Some 3yrs ago.

KEN

[CaptainInsano]

Jay, the Novac Kit is Sick! Uses a Toyota Slave and the bracket it comes with is nice too.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/71654175/1120614173032547942drZKld

Probably could get a spare slave and make a new bracket for spare and be done.

$175 I think I paid.

Some 3yrs ago.

KEN

ypu that is the one I have. You don't need a spare, just grind gears going home if she breaks. :)

[jays68yak]

OK need help picking a flywheel. 88' 454. Summits are all more then $200 and I wasnt planning on spending that much. There are some on ebay, anything I should look out for? I need one for an externally ballanced engine right?


Clutch...just go with a stock one?

[4X4HIGH]

The only flywheel you can use is from a 2 piece rear main seal 454 engine. 454 are all externally balanced but the later 1 piece rear main flywheel won't fit due to a bolt circle change for bolting it to the crank.

[jays68yak]

This one look ok?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SFI-Billet-Steel-Flywheel-bb-bbc-Big-Block-Chevy-454_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33732QQihZ008QQitem Z180024978545QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[4X4HIGH]

Yes, according to the specs that is the correct one.

[k5LS2]

Scott what about the fly wheel for a 2004 8.1 is the bolt circle the same as the one jay is ordering????

[4X4HIGH]

That is a completely different motor.

[Ryan B.]

I'm sure k5tpi is aware that a Gen VII 8.1L is a different animal than an old 454.
The thing in question, Is the BOLT PATTERN for the FLYWHEEL the same? (what year BBC flywheels interchange?)
:unsure:

Give me a week and i'll post the answer. :D :flipoff2:

[4X4HIGH]

I'm sure k5tpi is aware that a Gen VII 8.1L is a different animal than an old 454.
The thing in question, Is the BOLT PATTERN for the FLYWHEEL the same? (what year BBC flywheels interchange?)
:unsure:

Give me a week and i'll post the answer. :D :flipoff2:

Different engine means different flywheel. He needs 1990 and earlier 454.

It's not just a matter of bolt pattern either. The crank flange from the back of the bell housing location is also critical.

[k5LS2]

Dont you mean 1990 or newer? :crazy:

[jays68yak]

I have a feeling Kevin is getting rid of the weak link in his crew cab and is wondering what flywheel to go with.

[IceMan]

Dont you mean 1990 or newer? :crazy:

He means 1990 and older for Jays 2 piece rear main seal version engine.

[jays68yak]

Ok I need 3 more pieces.

Pilot bearing...Anything special I need to seek out? Or can I just walk in and asking a pilot bearing for a 78 1ton with manual and a 454?

Same for the throw out bearing.

I also need the rod that goes from the clutch fork to the clyinder.

Any pointers on a clutch?

[Nosmog73]

Stick with the Stock clutch, It will come with a bronze pilot bushing..Do not use the pilot BEARING you can get mud sand Crap into the bearings and toast it that way..
I think the throw out bearing comes in the kit..But if not yea do like you said. :2thumbs:

I also need the rod that goes from the clutch fork to the clyinder.

I can measure mine on monday.. :2thumbs:

[k5LS2]

Well I figured out I need a 572 flywheel and pilot bearing :beer:
Hope it all works :rolleyes:

[jays68yak]

Came across this today.
http://pnkages.com/gallery/d/6115-2/clutch.jpg
From the LMC catalog.

[Nosmog73]

After the shipping and what not you are better by price matching like I said above..lol :2thumbs:

[jays68yak]

Its a picture thats all.

[IceMan]

Ok I need 3 more pieces.

Pilot bearing...Anything special I need to seek out? Or can I just walk in and asking a pilot bearing for a 78 1ton with manual and a 454?

Same for the throw out bearing.

I also need the rod that goes from the clutch fork to the clyinder.

Any pointers on a clutch?

Wasn't the rod with parts I gave you?
The pilot bushing and the throw out bearing are both in a clutch kit, I wish I thought of it, I had just bought a kit last year before parting out the blazer, I could have sold you the whole kit.
:pain:

[jays68yak]

Nope didnt see the rod.

Do you still have the clutch? Id still be interested in it as I have yet to buy one and prob wont for another month cuz I need to sav eup money for it.

[IceMan]

Nope didnt see the rod.

Do you still have the clutch? Id still be interested in it as I have yet to buy one and prob wont for another month cuz I need to sav eup money for it.Let me see if I can find it quick, and I will also look for the rod if it's still here.

[jays68yak]

Can I use this clutch?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevy-GMC-Truck-12-1970-83-Clutch-Kit_W0QQitemZ200028741405QQihZ010QQcategoryZ33730Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[jays68yak]

or this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-CLUTCH-KIT-CHEVY-GMC-TRUCK-65-90_W0QQitemZ320030209454QQihZ011QQcategoryZ33730QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[CaptainInsano]

what do you need Jay? You can have whatever you need off the sierra grande for free. I have a clutch that looks still ok. Not perfect but it will work. The flywheel is still here too. Dunno if you need that or not, but the pressure plate, clutch plate, etc still here lying on the garage floor

[jays68yak]

Do you have a throw out bearing and pilot bushing? Either way Ill take the clutch and pressure plate. I have a brand new flywheel sitting in my room already.

[CaptainInsano]

Do you have a throw out bearing and pilot bushing? Either way Ill take the clutch and pressure plate. I have a brand new flywheel sitting in my room already.

yup it should all still be there...come and get it

[jays68yak]

Ok I need to figure out if Im draging my trailer out to Kevins this weekend. If so then I can grab it. If your around.

[IceMan]

Do you have a throw out bearing and pilot bushing? Either way Ill take the clutch and pressure plate. I have a brand new flywheel sitting in my room already.

You can not use the pilot bushing from another engine.
It's a very cheap item and a wear item so just buy that one.
I did find the clutch pac I have but if you can get the one for free and it's in good shape, go for it, just buy the bushing it's only $2.

[jays68yak]

After sleeping on it. I think its best that I just break down and buy it new. That way Im not pulling all the crap out once again to take care of something stupid like a fired bearing that I should of replaced in the first place.

Thanks guys.

[IceMan]

After sleeping on it. I think its best that I just break down and buy it new. That way Im not pulling all the crap out once again to take care of something stupid like a fired bearing that I should of replaced in the first place.

Thanks guys.

So you wanna buy mine?
It's new in the box.

[jays68yak]

Ok Im about to start dealing with the hydralics. After seeing Kevin have so many issues with his master I got to thinking about using a different one. I noticed that the one for the later trucks, 88-99 body style, has a flat mounting flange on it. I already have the older style one but I think I would have to fab up a spacer to make sure it mounts straight.

heres a pic of the newer style.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEVY-CHEVROLET-GMC-TRUCK-CLUTCH-MASTER-CYLINDER-92-95_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33730QQihZ007QQitemZ 170044957778QQrdZ1

Thoughts?

[CaptainInsano]

I used a Wilwood I think 3/4" bore, don't take my word for it cant remember right now. no problems. just fyi