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View Full Version : Swapping a 4l60e for a 4l80e


bggrnchvy
11-10-2006, 12:43 AM
Jay reminded me indirectly that Id never posted the trials and tribulations I had gone through getting the trannsmissions swapped that I was discussing with a few members at BlazerFest. Well anyways here it is:

I lost 3rd and 4th in my 4l60e on highway 101 about 90 minutes by freeway from home. Being limited to about 40mph in 2nd and not wanted to turn more than 3500rpms I took the backroads to the tune of about 3 hours.

I looked at options to fix the 60e which had most likely lost the 3-4 band. All of my searches resulted in costs of anywhere from $1200-2000 for a built to stock or built tough 60e. Now thats a lot of money when I see alot of other guys with built 60e's still having problems in fullsizes. Add to that my rig is heavy and just seems to get heavier spending $1500 and still wondering if its strong enough didn't sound like a good idea.

I had been a nay sayer about the 80e for a while as I didn't like the higher 2.48 1st as opposed to the deeper 3.06 1st of the 60e. I also thought the .75 OD in the 80e might be a bit much, but it turns out I could use a little more RPM's on highway to help keep the tires turning to go up grades and in headwinds.

I looked into the 80e swap and it seemed simple enough so I hunted around for used 80e to pop into my truck. I had a lot of options but alot were from the 1st run in 91-93 and the 80e has recieved a lot of upgrades since so newer was better within cost reason of course. I finally stumbled on a unit on Craigslist for $400 with a +3 qt pan and 241 attached. Snatched it up the same evening.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/80e1.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/80e2.jpg

One step I needed to do was drop the t-case and swap in a 32 spline input from another t-case I had. the input in the t-case attached to the 80e when I got it is also 32 spline and from a 241 but I have been told(but not confirmed) that old p-drop 241's have a different pitch to the teeth and will whine and eventually destroy if mismatched with later model gears. I luckily had recieved a p-drop 241 with a 32 spline input fomr a K20 Burb a couple months back so I tore the one in the truck and the K20 unit down to get the inputs out and swap them.

Case from the truck.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/241internals.jpg
Burb case.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/80eswappics1001.jpg
32 spline vs. 27 spline input
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/80eswappics1003.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/80eswappics1004.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/80eswappics1002.jpg

With the t-case done I had to get the 60e out, home made tranny attachment and some tippage later it was out(oops).
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/80eswappics3002.jpg

Had to do some wire splicing in the main harness, just cut 2 wires and croos them basically. I can't recall which they were offhand, but Ill look it up a bit later.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/80eswap6.jpg

Tossed the 80e into the truck and bolted the bellhousing up. Then massaged the floor boards a bit so I could tuck the t-case up just a little further.
[img]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/80eswap6001.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/80eswap7003.jpg

With those in it was time to build the belly pan to hold the transmission and to bolt the flat skid to. I mated some 2x4 .120 tube to some 3" long 1.75" .120 tubing for the frame side poly mounts which will bolt into some 3/8" link tabes welded into the frame rails from ruffstuffspecialties.com. They do great work over there and the customer service I recieved was some of the best in my dealings.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/80eswap7001.jpg

I cranked the welder up and beveled the edges of the 3/8" and welded both sides. It worked pretty well but I was very close to the upper limit of what Id try to do with my 175 with single passes.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/80e8002.jpg
Then I bolted the new crossmember assembly in and tacked it together, removed it again and full welded it. At which poin tI started putting in the crosspeices to limit the open spans so I could use some thinner plate.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/80e9002.jpg
I also put the new trans mount in and I did use a stock rubber unit as I don't want to crack the bellhousing and i don't trust the 1.5" bushings to flex as much as the worn motor mounts do.

At this point I put in the new cooler for the tranny, I went with the biggest I could find in this 40k rated unit with a thermal bypass. The thermal bypass is nice as it lets the transmission get to operating temp before it will flow through and keep it cool. The stock trans cooler became the PS cooler for the new hydro assist I also added.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/80e903.jpg
I added an inline filter as well as the stock unit is more of a screen than a filter. It has a temp probe that I can hookup later in the mount as well.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/80e1203.jpg

I finished the crossbeams in the pan about this time.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/4l802101.jpg
I finally recieved the inspection cover and dipstick tube as well. these are 80e specific as I found and finding them used was a chore. I found them at the Performance Automotive and Transmission Center, transmissioncenter.net.

I finally cut some of the plate I found at the scrap yard up, the skid is made of .200.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Bellypan.jpg

The last part of the swap was getting the stock computer tuned as I needed the 80e .bin files. I oredered a tune from Westers tuning as they were the only company I could find that said it would be no problem.

After alot of other non-transmission related issues the truck is now driving well. All the gauges work as they should and the transmission shifts normally. the higher 1st is a little different as you have to keep your foot in it, but the close ratio's keep you in the power band so its a much smoother cycle as a whole. Im pretty happy with is all so far.

Cracker
11-10-2006, 03:27 AM
Looks like a lot of work. :uh oh: :thumb:

jays68yak
05-08-2007, 06:32 AM
Kyle, Do you recall where the pressure port is on the 4l80? Need to hook up my temp gauge.

bggrnchvy
05-08-2007, 06:41 AM
The test port should be on the drivers side above cable operated shift assembly IIRC, its 1/8" NPT as well.

Funny you bring this back to the top though, I just bought a whole bunch of parts to do a perfomance oreinted rebuild on this thing.

jays68yak
05-08-2007, 01:50 PM
Id like to see what that part of the build up. But after messing with the 400, I dont think Ill touch another auto.

Burt4x4
05-08-2007, 02:22 PM
Nicely done!

bggrnchvy
05-08-2007, 06:17 PM
Id like to see what that part of the build up. But after messing with the 400, I dont think Ill touch another auto.

Ill update as I go, parts should start arriving today but I need to finish some other stuff simply to have room to work in he garage before I drop the tranny.

jays68yak
05-08-2007, 09:52 PM
FYI I found this on the net.
http://www.tvmadeez.com/press_gauge/graphics/4l80efull_bg.jpg

bggrnchvy
05-09-2007, 03:45 AM
There ya go Jay, good image to have around.

The converter and shift kit showed up today. The converter is just a new unit with the 7.4L stall speed(1800rpms I think).
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Transpartsv201.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Transpartsv201-1.jpg

crewcabroller
05-09-2007, 03:56 AM
Purple!!! Oooohhhhh :)

bggrnchvy
05-09-2007, 06:45 AM
Oooooh buuuuurrrrn!

crewcabroller
05-09-2007, 06:56 AM
I just like purple :uh oh:

bggrnchvy
05-09-2007, 07:06 AM
Oh, well in that case :thumb:

bggrnchvy
05-10-2007, 02:31 AM
Blue plate OD's, new steels, updated manual band and hardened clutch hub.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Transpartsv201-2.jpg

bggrnchvy
05-16-2007, 06:06 AM
I got the main rebuild kit today along with the 34 element sprag but I left the sprag at work by accident, oh well.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/TransmissionPartsV201.jpg
Seals, gaskets, o-rings and new dipstick grommet.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/TransmissionPartsV201-1.jpg
Basic trans filter(though mine is basically brand new at this point) and the bushings.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/TransmissionPartsV201-2.jpg
Alto clutches and steels.

No reverse band so Ill have to look at trying to find a new one. Ive heard the early TH400 ribbed bands are better as the metal band is thicker and will hold better than the newer ones but Im not sure where to get the older style.

bggrnchvy
06-04-2007, 03:53 AM
Took an afternoon but I go the trans out with some help at the end to lower it safely.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/TransDrop1-2.jpg
Mess of parts
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/TransDrop1.jpg
Not sure what exactly is happening here. The seal on the trans is good but there was a little water and some pepto trans fluid in the adaptor and this waxy like foam on the t-case.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/TransDrop1-1.jpg
Safely in the garage but in need of a quicky work bench to be built.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/TransDrop1-3.jpg
The truck is a cavernous pit again.

crewcabroller
06-04-2007, 05:00 AM
Hows the t-case fluid? Tranny fluid?

bggrnchvy
06-04-2007, 07:00 AM
T-case fluid was as bright red as it was when I filled it from the quart containers, tranny Im not sure of. I did however drain the pan fluid in the tranny less than 300 miles ago and it was bright red as well but with those cute little aluminum shavings.

bggrnchvy
06-06-2007, 04:56 AM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/TransDrop1-4.jpg
Making slow progress, took an hour this evening with materials picked up yesterday and built the workbench.

bggrnchvy
06-13-2007, 06:45 AM
Grit on the o-ring between the t-case adapter and tranny housing. Could be the reason for a slight leak back there :roll: At least thats a simple fix.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/RC-Trans01004.jpg

bggrnchvy
06-14-2007, 08:40 AM
It seems to have keeled over and died.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny02.jpg

I just pulled the turbine and output speed sensors, NSS switch and the cover. I did find that one of the pan bolts was helicoiled for sure and poorly at that. The SS insert pulled out when I dropped the gasket.

bggrnchvy
06-15-2007, 04:20 AM
Get home from work, grab ice tea, take off internal harness, lube tube, detent mechanism, shift rod, parking brake pall assembly and valve body.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny02-2.jpg
Grab a bite to eat, unbolt pump and devise method of removing unit without GM specific puller.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny02-1.jpg
Grab water, remove complete geartrain assembly whilst finding aluminum shavings through out. Did not find answer to what is being shaved quite yet...grumble...
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny02-3.jpg

Ill start rebuilding sub assemblies one at a time once I clean the area up so I have a clean space to work.

bggrnchvy
06-15-2007, 06:47 AM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/TubedRearBumper-SW-ISO.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/TubedRearBumper-SW-Rear.jpg
Bored here waiting for my tube die and unmotivated to move all the trans stuff to start those assemblies so I drew up my thoughts on the tube work. I did forget the runners but Im lazy at this point and don't want to go through the work of reformating, saving and uploading.

bggrnchvy
06-17-2007, 10:27 AM
Well I started taking apart assemblies and poking around. Results so far are that the planetaries are perfect as are all the hard parts that I can see. Pump looks good other than a worn input bushing which will be replaced. There are some granular particles through out in the gears which seem to be from the bushings damaged.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny02-4.jpg
Hardened clutch hub vs. stocker.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny02-5.jpg
Notice the radius vs the chamfer and the lack of groves on the top.

The spot that did show concern was the thin bushing between the output shaft and the case, made of plastic, it is torn and what looks like partially melted.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny02-6.jpg
It rides on the surface to the right in the picture.

I also notice a HAZ on the output shaft but I hope its form friction welding the 2 together after manufacture or something as that would indicate extreme heat.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny02-7.jpg

The only thing that makes any sense is a slight misalignment between the t-case and the tranny side loading that bushing and the slightly scorched bushing on the housing output. Plan is to replace clutches, manual and reverse bands, clutch hub, seals and worn bushings and build the valve body and then torque everything, set end play and bolt it in tightly with locktite and cross the fingers. Should be going back in next weekend.

bggrnchvy
06-18-2007, 01:52 AM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny02-8.jpg
Tranny output shaft bushing, one in the case on the left, new unit on the right. I think we've located the problem.

k5LS2
06-18-2007, 05:36 AM
Always good to find the problem :thumb:

Ryan B.
06-18-2007, 05:43 AM
I just like purple helmeted warriors. :uh oh:

:blink: :g3y:

crewcabroller
06-18-2007, 05:54 AM
Took me a minute to figure out what that meant...

bggrnchvy
06-20-2007, 10:37 AM
Well I guess I answered my question as to how I got so many shavings from just that little bushing...

Roller clutch
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny02-9.jpg
Needle thrust bearing(notice the melted imbeded aluminum literally encasing some of the rollers)
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny02-10.jpg

Reaction drum bushing, probably where a lot of the material came from. Its supposed to have a neat groved pattern for oil flow that is so far gone its indisitinguishable. I had to beat the shaft assembly out of it.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny02-13.jpg

The carrier assembly bushing, nuked worse than the ouptut unit.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny02-11.jpg

And damage to carrier assembly itself from heat and foreign material. Ive got a line on a unit to replace it cheaply, but its a set back in terms of time. Only 1 month left.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny02-12.jpg

bggrnchvy
06-22-2007, 12:40 AM
Pulled apart the overdrive carrier last night only to find that the overdrive roller clutch body, made of plastic, liquified and as a result wiped out the overdrive planetary carrier. Ill snap some pics later if I remember.

Bought one off ebay last night though, hopefully it along with the new lower roller clutch and bearings will arrive soon. Still need to get the reaction carrier replaced that has the fucked bushing journal, sigh. Need to build the valvebody but other than that Ive rebuilt all the gear train assemblies, just need to the last parts so I can start dropping them in and get the end plays right.

bggrnchvy
06-22-2007, 04:06 AM
Overdrive carrier carnagee:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny03.jpg
That plastic mess is supposed to be a formed peice that holds those roller bearings, obviously that failed.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny03-1.jpg

bggrnchvy
06-28-2007, 02:27 AM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/ODrollerclutchmix.jpg
Notice the p in p, that is the new OD roller clutch compared to what was left of the old one.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Transmission3.jpg
Old lower roller clutch on the left, they look alright.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Transmission3-2.jpg
Ah, there's an issue.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Transmission3-1.jpg
Old thrust bearing vs. new. I had to pry the old one apart form its race as it had fused itself together.

bggrnchvy
07-02-2007, 12:26 AM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Transmission3-3.jpg
Comparison pics of the Raybestos Blue Plates vs. the stock OD clutches.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Transmission3-4.jpg
The gear train is so close to done, need that last drum and the thrust washers to show up so I can set the tailshaft end play, drop it all in and set input end play be out. I think Im going to hold on building the valve body so one I can isolate any issue I have once its together and two so I can save some time as my deadline is fast aproaching and I want to drive it as much as I can to verify its all working well.

2-1/2 weeks, eek!

crewcabroller
07-02-2007, 01:57 AM
Just swap the 60e back in.

bggrnchvy
07-02-2007, 03:06 AM
I think thats what you told me to do last Blazerfest even though I only had 1st, 2nd and reverse.

bggrnchvy
07-13-2007, 09:29 AM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny03.3.jpg
Planetaries in, end play set, center support torqued in. HOping to get it buttoned up tomorrow night and everything in by Saturday night. Then the rest of the work can be Saturday and Monday-Thurs nights.

bggrnchvy
07-14-2007, 08:18 AM
Went pretty fast IMO.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny03.4001.jpg
End play checks out, about .012".
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny03.4002.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny03.4003.jpg
Tossed in the Transgo seperator plate. The stocker didn't have hardly any check ball wear but this was preventative. The new unit is 7.5 thousandths thicker than the old one(bringing it to 40 thousandths even) and zinc plated.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny03.4004.jpg
Put the valve body, detent shifter assembly, lube tube and internal harness back together and bolted up the pan.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny03.4005.jpg
These are sitting around waiting to get hard wired as well, want to keep this trans together.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny03.4006.jpg

bggrnchvy
07-15-2007, 12:16 AM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny03.5004.jpg
And so it sits as I try to locate some friends to help put it in, whats with people and going out of town on weekends?

bggrnchvy
07-24-2007, 05:04 AM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c299/bggrnchevy/Tranny03.6001.jpg
Seems to work, sure did act funny when it was sucking up fluid though. 3 and a half gallons later it seems to be working normally. Need to hook up the temp gauge and then drive it for a bit, hopefully head out for a HH excursion this weekend.

bggrnchvy
07-26-2007, 04:49 AM
I think the final tally is 18qts :roll:

Hooked the temp gauge up tonight and romped on the truck a bit(speaking of I need to go fill it up for the first ime in 3 months or so) and I couldn't get above 125*F at the test port. I did 2 stall checks one right after the other to get the temp up a bit to make sure the gauge is working and temp went up to 150* but thats it. Taking it to work tomorrow so we shall see :thumb:

jays68yak
07-26-2007, 05:36 AM
How far did you drive it? Mine takes a bit to warm up unless your on the freeway at speed.

The oil pressure... is that for tranny or engine? Im trying to find 2 more gauges for my pod, but Im lost as to what would be helpful. Unless I put a turbo on it.

bggrnchvy
07-26-2007, 05:48 AM
I was out bombing around for about 20 minutes.

The guage is for engine oil pressure, I don't quite trust the stock idiot guage. With the current pillar not fitting I think I'm forced to go the triple pod route and may run a PS temp guage and swap the tranny and PS remote filters I have as the tranny unit has a 1/8" NPT threaded port for a temp guage. It would be nice ot know if my PS temps are skyrocketing out of control and require there own fan on cooler.

bggrnchvy
07-26-2007, 05:32 PM
Well I'm at work and so is the truck :thumb:

I saw a pretty steady 150*F on the last leg of my commute, looking good.

Now I just have to finish the CO2 system, buy some spare parts and do a bit more tube work so this thing will be ready for the Con. In the meantime I'm still thinking hollister this weekend :D

Cracker
07-26-2007, 06:32 PM
Cool, nice to see it come together. You probably shouldn't go to HH. You'll break something in the obstacle course and never make it on a real trip. :p

bggrnchvy
07-26-2007, 07:32 PM
:blink: You might have a point, if I just leave it in the driveway I can't break it.

I'd rather snap something at Hollister than break something obnoxious on the Con, I just have to motivate my friends.

crewcabroller
07-26-2007, 11:38 PM
No, don't go to HH, just go to the rubicon, I like doing trail repairs, I don't like people breaking something stupid and saying "oops guess I can't go now..."

bggrnchvy
07-27-2007, 12:15 AM
Well regardless it doesn't look like I get to go wheeling this weekend afterall. All of my friends backed out and I don't enjoy the idea of braving Garlic Festival traffic for hours in both directions one my own for a few hours of wheeling. Ill have to plan to go the weekend following, I'll finish all the little tidbits this weekend.

jays68yak
07-27-2007, 01:30 AM
Let me know when you go I might be down to break mine more.

Cracker
07-27-2007, 01:50 AM
No, don't go to HH, just go to the rubicon, I like doing trail repairs, I don't like people breaking something stupid and saying "oops guess I can't go now..."

At least someone agrees with me.


Kyle- think of it this way. If you break and decide to flake on the 'Con, Jason will go as far as cutting your roof off just so you can go on the trip. Comfort doesn't matter just as long as you make it there. That's what friends are for. :2thumbs:

I really wish that trip was rescheduled so I could make it. You had better make it or we'll arrange an IFS swap party in your dis-honor. I'll even donate the parts to the cause.

bggrnchvy
07-27-2007, 02:23 AM
I already have the time off work, unless this tranny melts into a ball inside again or the motor throws a rod through the block I've got no excuse. I'm stoked for the trip. I've wanted to get out there for a while, not since 98 or whatever like you, but still a while.

Jay, I'm going to try to reorganize for a trip next next weekend, I'll keep you in the loop.

crewcabroller
07-27-2007, 02:56 AM
Cracker, I'm down to run the con again whenever, just let me know, I'm sure I can get 1 or 2 more people as well.

IceMan
07-27-2007, 02:58 AM
Cracker, I'm down to run the con again whenever, just let me know, I'm sure I can get 1 or 2 more people as well.

If you guys will end up doing it in at least a few months I might be up for it, but now it's a no way. :pain:

jays68yak
06-14-2010, 03:19 AM
Hate to bring up an old post......but Ill forget to ask you Mr Kyle. Where did you buy all the parts for the rebuild? Its only been 3 years, you should know off the top of your head. :tongue4:

bggrnchvy
06-14-2010, 04:57 PM
Hate to bring up an old post......but Ill forget to ask you Mr Kyle. Where did you buy all the parts for the rebuild? Its only been 3 years, you should know off the top of your head. :tongue4:

http://www.oregonperformancetransmission.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=OPTI&Category_Code=4L80E

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4l80e.htm

I also picked up some parts from:

http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/

Cracker, I'm down to run the con again whenever, just let me know, I'm sure I can get 1 or 2 more people as well.

:(

jays68yak
06-14-2010, 08:18 PM
Cracker, I'm down to run the con again whenever, just let me know, I'm sure I can get 1 or 2 more people as well.

:(

I know, thats why I was second guessing myself about bringing the post back up. :(

Cracker
06-14-2010, 11:16 PM
I know, thats why I was second guessing myself about bringing the post back up. :(

I still have the PM of him telling me wait for a later date since magazine people want to see IFS on the Con. :uh oh: